Malakite's Review - The Adventures of Alex Normalday


August 13th, 2009, 8:32 pm



Average Rating: None

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Author Comments:

  Malakite, August 13th, 2009, 8:35 pm


Well this one took a bit longer to make, there are some minor changes in the layout and you will be seeing more of these as the reviews go along. Anyways here is the review for Alex Normalday and all its greatness.

The Adventures of Alex Normalday
http://www.alexnormalday.com/comics/

Teh List of Doom

BaWaSoG:
http://bawasog.thewebcomic.com

Kemono Densetsu
http://kemonodensetsu.smackjeeves.com/

LOL Waffles (re-review by Ultimate Ridley)
http://lolwaffles.smackjeeves.com

Tales of the Nihilist (Re-review)
http://ton.smackjeeves.com

The After Subtract (Re-review)
http://tas.smackjeeves.com/

Variable Hunters:
http://variablehunter.smackjeeves.com/

Q4CE:
http://questforthechaosemeralds.smackjeeves.com/

1000:
http://1000.smackjeeves.com

Planet B:
http://planetb.smackjeeves.com

ARK: The Adventures of Ridley and Kraid:
http://arkthecomic.smackjeeves.com

Miraj:
http://miraj.smackjeeves.com/

Saturday Night Mudkipz:
http://saturdaynightmudkipz.smackjeeves.com/

TLS (Chapter 6 onwards):
http://www.theloneswordsman.smackjeeves.com/

Madness Manga:
http://madnessmanga.smackjeeves.com

Nio Transient Pulse:
http://nio.smackjeeves.com/comics/

Nokomi's Vengeance:
http://nokomis.smackjeeves.com/

Mosaic Overdose
http://jinxthemagicalnut.smackjeeves.com

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Reader Comments:

 

XD

posted by BaldDumboRat on August 13th, 2009, 8:59 pm



 

I was fairly sure that D00D64 claimed dibs on the LOL Waffles re-review.

posted by BreakerLOLZ on August 13th, 2009, 9:16 pm



 

Thank you for taking the time to review my comic strip. I know exactly which strip you are reffering to, as my wife is really particular and will bust me quicker than I can mispell arbitrary. So I have to write comics as if she will be reading them. It's a good safety measure. :D

I will continue to improve my secondary characters. I understand some confusion when non sequitor characters show up in the series. I'd like to think it adds to the appeal. :D

The biggest piece of advice I have gleaned from this actually suprising review ( I thought you were gonna tear it a new asshole!) is my posting frequency.

This is something which I have never had a frim grasp on as far as how soon to put out new stuff. That, and weekend posts.

I suppose the reason I try to update so often is to keep topping the "Recently Updated" list to get some face time.

Also, to be honest, I have a very bad feeling my Smackjeeves fanbase is low due to my strip being inconsistient with the prevailing style that inhabits this hosting site.

I enjoy working in color too! I guess I haven't recently due to trying to get my strips out one a day.

I am humbled that I scored as well as I did.

posted by mandu on August 13th, 2009, 9:56 pm



  @mandu

I like your comics and you got a fan from yours truly.

posted by Zanoh on August 13th, 2009, 10:31 pm



 

I knew I liked this comic for a reason! I'm an avid reader, and a fan forever. You may be able to tell that by my name. =]

posted by mandufan on August 13th, 2009, 11:37 pm



 

@mandu
Comics only get their assholes torn when they make mistakes that are obvious not to make. If you look at a lot of comics on smackjeeves whether drawn or sprited, my biggest issue is story, characters and originality. Like I've said in previous reviews, after doing comics for such a long time I've seen what works and what doesn't work. I honestly could have torn your comic a new asshole but it wouldn't be justified. A good comic deserves a good review. So yea, that's all I can say.

posted by Malakite on August 14th, 2009, 12:50 am



 

@Malakite duly noted! stay groovy and brutally honest! the world needs that! :D

posted by mandu on August 14th, 2009, 7:08 am



  @Breaker

He did? Well crap. I already have the review ready and everything, I just have to make a passing review by Malakite's standards in order to finally be able to post it...

posted by Ultimate Ridley on August 14th, 2009, 1:47 pm



 

Ug. Malakite... This is really frustrating to say but...

Rough Reviewer is really awestruck by alot of avid alliteration.

In other words, You got gimmicked.

Yes the comic you just reviewed is quality work. But bonus points for such a simple gimmick? COME ON NOW. I'd also think you were being too tough on a single error....

posted by Terminal Devastation on August 14th, 2009, 2:43 pm



 

@ TD
Using big words in a story isn't a gimmick, its impressive literary skills that 90% of smackjeeves users don't come anywhere close to having. Its a bonus point, its not me being generous like "omfgorz hez gunna getz 13/10 cauze of big wordz hurdurf" Saying he gets a bonus point doesn't mean he actually got any, he gets a bonus point in my books for using big words correctly in a sentence which is impressive for smackjeeves standards cause half the people who post comics around here have the spelling and literary skills of shit on a stick.
Secondly, an error is an error, you cannot reward a perfect mark if an error exists, perfect implies that there is no flaw present, it may be one comic and its not one error, its actually a few errors on a single page, and because i don't rate with .5 its automatically 9/10. Spelling and Grammar has to be the easiest category in any review to score marks in, its pretty straight forward, either you know English well or you're a total dunce cap who has no hope in hell. The fact you're making such a fuss on an minor category in a review kinda boggles me a bit. I can understand if the three big categories Story, Characters and Originality we're marked too harshly or not harshly enough but CMON, spelling and grammar?!

I'm sorry of I sound like an egotistical ass here but I don't get your gripe here at all.

posted by Malakite on August 14th, 2009, 2:53 pm



 

I seemed to have misunderstood a little here. I was thinking you docked him 2 points for a minor error and actually gave him a bonus point.

But really it IS a gimmick in the current context. It is really easy to chain long words when one is alliterating. Because to pull it off correctly on HAS to find the right words. Alliteration with large words IS a gimmick.

I think my gripe is you're impressed with the wrong thing here. He use a grand total of one word that was actually impressive to see used in a normal sentence.

Every other time the large words showed up he was alliterating. So its his alliteration skills that are inpressive not so much his vocabulary. Quite frankly if he wasn't alliterating, he would have just been overly verbose.

Can it be considered impressive literary skills? Yes it can.

And to be completely honest, I'm also little sore that a comic has to be good overall before it can recieve an 'above and beyond' in an area. >.<

posted by Terminal Devastation on August 14th, 2009, 3:50 pm



 

Well, just because a comic may be good, doesn't make it a 10. You can have good, which would be around an average rating, 6-8. It has to take a very good story to get 9-10, this has to be something that can hook the interest of the reader and keep them entertained, while showing amazing skill, creative and believable vocabulary, great characters and overall outstanding work. And believe me, it's not often that someone taps into such skill, it's rare, which is why not many achieve a near perfect score.

And the score of one category effecting the others is very plausible.

Example: Bad vocabulary- Takes away from the believability of a character, if a character in a serious moment says something like 'omg! ur dead! plz wake up i cant liv witout u!" you really can't take the character seriously. This would also down the presentation because it makes it more difficult to read and enjoy. And if it's hard to read and you can't take a character seriously, then it also ruins the story because the characters are part of the story. Weak dialogue can ultimately create a weak story. Even if the art is extremely beautiful and the expressions really show well, if the vocabulary doesn't fit the moment it ruins it completely. Everything can effect another aspect quite easily, thus, the domino effect.
Weak characters make a weak story, weak originality makes weak characters and weak story, weak story makes weak characters. See?

posted by BaldDumboRat on August 14th, 2009, 3:57 pm



 

@ TD

You think it's a gimmick, literary professors in University and College look for that level of writing. Now it would be unfair to assume a 10 year old can write at that level but I judge the spelling and grammar based on the age of the user. Most users post their age so that gives me an idea of what skill level they should have. It's not a gimmick. You're also mistaken, I'm impressed with the comic overall and i've said it in every category as I explained, I think you need to re-read my review cause you're definitely not reading it correctly at all. As for your last statement, the comic doesn't have to be good overall to get above and beyond. I've stated this many times in my reviews, if Story, Originality, and Characters don't do well the story fails. Period. And I should note, he used big words more than once in the series so far, i've counted over a couple dozen of them and its not a matter of just flinging a big word in the comic, its using in the right context that fits the sentence and situation. You gotta remember something, those three categories make up 30 of the 50 marks in the review, that's a huge chunk. You can make the presentation of it to look like the most amazing thing ever conceived and you can use the best vocabulary that the english language contains, but even if you score perfect 10 in both those categories, that's only 20 out of 50, that's still below 50%. Everything effects everything in the comic, Its how it effects it that the author has to discover. What Mandu did for Alex Normalday was really well done, it's not perfect but it works, and he is satisfied with the mark he received, he said it himself, it's higher than he expected. For someone to say that shows that I do my job just fine.

posted by Malakite on August 14th, 2009, 4:01 pm



 

You missed the point and started to put words in my mouth.
First off, the biggest words only appear when most of the words in the sentence have the same first letter. Of course University professors expect it, high school teachers also expect that level.

Secondly, I'm not mistaken, because I've never said anything about you NOT being impressed with the comic in other ways.

It IS a gimmick. Quite frankly, it appears to be used for purposes of mild humor.

Since I need to clarify my last sentence, its a little discouraging when you spend hours working a comic, and the comics clear strong point isn't even acknowledged, even in a "HEY DUMBASS, STOP MAKING IT PRETTY AND START MAKING IT BETTER" kind of way.

Actually, before I go further, what IS your definition of gimmick and what qualifies a word as a big word. I rather not be argueing because we merely have different definitions.

posted by Terminal Devastation on August 14th, 2009, 4:24 pm



 

@TD
Are we on the same page, cause it somehow looks like your talking about YOUR comic rather than the one that we're posting in?

So how about you clarify that first before I continue.

posted by Malakite on August 14th, 2009, 4:36 pm



 

Um.. Isn't a gimmick like false advertising? Using one thing to boost up the rest of something that's not that great? I don't understand your point if that's the case, because clearly this good score wasn't made good because he used good vocabulary. Most comics out there can easily score a 10 in vocabulary but have 1s in everything else. So.. uh.. How is Mandu's vocab a gimmick to make the comic better exactly?
I'm starting to wonder what YOU think a gimmick is, because I looked up the definition to confirm my point.

posted by BaldDumboRat on August 14th, 2009, 5:00 pm



 

By the way, the definition of a gimmick, is someone hyping up a product or thing to be better than it really is, those who are not savvy or aware of certain things wouldn't be the wiser. An example would be a lot of those infomercials we see on TV, they hype all this crap for a low price but the reality is the product is more or less a gimmick cause it doesn't work like it was hyped up to. Mandu's comic does not do this at all, his style of writing is used in every comic, not for the sake of trying to impress or make people think he's amazing, its for the humor aspect, cause you wouldn't expect two dumb ass characters to be good with vocabulary.

posted by Malakite on August 14th, 2009, 5:01 pm



 

Very well. I'll make it very clear. I apologize to Mandu in advance because unfortunately I'll have to be brutally honest on what I think of this review in how it protrays your comic.

Most of my arguement: The comic being reviewed is a above mediocre comic that seems to have overly impressed malakite with the useful literary gimmick known as alliteration, when it is pretty much only used as an attempt at mild humor, or possibly a reference to some cartoon show. It is a darn effective gimmick, but could the story have easily done without it or used a better method? Yes it could have. That is what makes it a gimmick in my book, one of those little extra things that you don't really really need, but its done enough to cause a draw, in this case mild humor, which is nothing to actually be impressed with; It is pretty dang common. And you can't call my definition wrong either, because I'm using a definition closer to its 2a/2c definition.
I looked it up too. Twice.

Last sentence of two posts ago:
I had to be honest and suggest that I did in fact have another, more personal, reason to speak up about this other than how it seems you were going a little easier on this one than many of the other ones because I was expecting a great comic when I clicked the link to read it and found an decent comic that scores more points for not making mistakes than for taking risks at actually having it pay off;
I'm also little sore that this comic gets kudos for being able to look up words in a thesaurus so that all the begining letters match, yet I work my ass off graphically, and it doesn't get a mention, even as a cyanical remark!

Also it does relate to how you reviewed this comic, as in you seemed to have changed standards, so I brought it up.

In short: The comic was not the great, emphasis on the word great, comic you made it out to be, and I don't believe you'd have ever even mentioned that if he had major flaws in any other category.

posted by Terminal Devastation on August 14th, 2009, 5:42 pm



 

I think you miss the point TD, I review based on what I see and what I read. In MY opinion, the comic was good and it was funny, if you don't agree with it, your problem not mine. If you think I miss-judged your comic for all the hard work you put into it, then again, that's not my problem. Spending hours and hours on a comic doesn't mean it will score good. If you put that much time into your comic and it didn't score well, it means you've been wasting your time making it incorrectly. Whether you want to admit it or not is your choice not mine. Personally you're wasting your time arguing a point that doesn't even exist to begin with, it only exists to you. I like mandu's comic, and I do recommend it to those who share the same opinion I have towards it, people don't have to like it cause I said so, they have to like because they like it. You think its mediocre, that's your call, but don't bring your comic problems into someone else's comic review, and not to mention, 2 weeks after the fact. Post your issues in YOUR review.

EDIT: I should also note, this comic scored a 78%, its a great mark but its not like uber amazing or anything, I know most people might not like the humor but like I said, those who like it would be those who enjoy that type of humor, which I do. Here's my wording grading system incase you don't get it:
Horrible: 0-30%
Terrible: 30-40%
Bad: 40-50%
Ok: 50-60%
Good: 60-70%
Great: 70-80%
Excellent: 80-90%
Amazing: 90-100% (that will NEVER happen)

posted by Malakite on August 14th, 2009, 6:06 pm



 

Erm... I don't see Malakite being 'overly impressed' as you keep stating. 78/100 is an average score, last time I checked. It means great, but not amazing. And it got this score because it impressed him, but it didn't blow his mind away like an A+ comic would.
He gives it praise because this is the first comic he's reviewed that was DECENT.

And what the hell are you talking about with alliteration? Did you even read the comic? That tactic was used once as a reference to 'V for Vendetta', and I havn't seen it ever again. And to assume Malakite is grading the whole thing based on that one part is pretty darn close minded. He wouldn't be stupid enough to rate a whole comic's grade on one little clever page.

Here, show me what pages were alliteration gimmicks, and tell me why, because I'm not seeing it.

posted by BaldDumboRat on August 14th, 2009, 6:28 pm



  @ Terminal Destination

Oh for god sakes man, please silence your mouth and have some decency. I just had to deal with Tariqlovescomics, and now apparently I have to do the same to you.

Before I begin, I will say I have read your comic, and coming from a fellow sprite author, I know the time it takes to make a sprite comic. HOWEVER that does not mean you are going to get a good score on it.

Also instead of acting like an egotistical dip twat, let me tell you one thing. Drawn versus sprite comics in terms of time and effort, a good drawn comic takes WAY much more time than a sprite one no matter how hard you try and prove otherwise.

Also I took a look at your review and you absolutely KNOW NOTHING of what a gimmick means. There is not such thing as a literary gimmick. That is something you made up to cover one piece of A WHOLE PIE and basing it on THAT assumption you deem the comic bad. I read the comic, and it has a charm and wit of it's own, not just in LITERACY, but PRESENTATION, ORIGINALITY, AND STORY. I even recommend it to anyone that is in for a good read.

Let me wake you up to reality. Your comic, like mine, is neither original nor literately great. Thusly YOUR comic (which I read mind you), relies heavily on story AND presentation, and that you messed up terribly as well.

Malakite reviewed my comic and I got a 68%. Near great which means I need to improve. You do not see me acting butt hurt when he gave mandu a better score. You on the other hand, are acting like an immature dip-twat to try and justify why YOUR comic is so great, when in reality you need improvement.

Finally, let me finish off by saying, it's YOUR opinion versus HIS opinion. His opinion has more merit because he has not only years of experience, he is a hard to impress reviewer. So he KNOWS what's good and what's not. You, are barely into the whole comic charade so of course you not only have no experience, you are trying to challenge a reviewer's opinion. IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY IN REAL LIFE. If you are upset about YOUR review score, you can always get a second opinion, but NEVER take it out on someone else's work WHO EARNED IT! And to finalize, Malakite's on this site, YOU ARE NOT. Therefore his opinion has more weight than yours.

So take the literacy argument and shove it back in your pie hole and be MATURE about it instead of acting like an egotistical twat.

Cheers,
Zanoh

posted by Zanoh on August 14th, 2009, 6:29 pm



 

@ Zanoh
O.o....dear christ man...Stop stealing my shtick....><

posted by Malakite on August 14th, 2009, 6:33 pm



 

O___O . . . . <3

posted by BaldDumboRat on August 14th, 2009, 6:34 pm



 

I don't have an issue with my review. I have an issue with THIS review because of your previous reviews.

After the review you gave me I was quite certain you where the kind of reviewer that
would quite unbaisedly point out each and every flaw and truly give out advice that would take the comic to the next level.

So I expected any comic that would get a recommendation of a "great" would either be a comic I could quite easily see why people would think that the comic belongs among the top 25% or a bloody masterpiece even if I myself don't like it. And you wouldn't give it brownie points for small stuff like alliterating large words. My issue is this review isn't up to par with your others. The Malakite I thought I knew, as little as I knew, would have at least pointed out how the text is very tiny in some strips.

No I don't think I can review better than you. But I do think you have shown that you can review better than this.

The only reason I mentioned my comic at all, is that the moment I complained it would be easy to dismiss anything I say as your just upset you didn't do better, because I was reviewed before. I've seen it happen. I decided I'd man up before that happened, and say yes, that is partly true, in a attempt to lessen that effect. Excuse me for being honest.
For the record, you guys asked for clarification.

As a reviewer, especially one that has gained respect, you wield a bit of power, the power to improve, grow or even sink a comic.
The moment any author gets a review of their stuff from a reviewer that review becomes the author's problem. Even if they are stubborn and choose to ignore it. But the quality of the review is the reviewer's problem. If the quality falters too much, the quality of the other reviews might be put into question. Nobody wants that. So if your reviews start to loose quality... others won't recieve that kind of quality. Which makes this my problem, because it effects me.

...

I guess it might have been easier just to review your review... Since reading my own posts I seem to be trying to do that in one heck of a roundabout way...

[edit]
@Zanoh: Before you cut in again... First I was in the middle of typing when you posted, so excuse the wall of text.

posted by Terminal Devastation on August 14th, 2009, 7:10 pm



 

@Molly
Comic added ^^

posted by Malakite on August 14th, 2009, 7:19 pm



 

"The Malakite I thought I knew, as little as I knew, would have at least pointed out how the text is very tiny in some strips."

Ahem. Please refer to presentation. Malakite states: "Just watch the panels when you post your comics and also keep the panels at the larger sizes, cause the comic is easier to read."

I personally don't find the jokes in Mandu's comic very funny, because a lot of them are media jokes which aren't my style, but for people who do like those kind of jokes, it's pretty damn funny.

And again, great doesn't mean top 25, it means Average. Average in my eyes is 'ok, it's a steak, but where's the sauce?'

Malakite IS an asshole reviewer, but why be an asshole when he sees something that doesn't make him want to claw his eyes out?
He personally saw no flaws, he wasn't being biased because biased would be like if he said "OMG IT'S A SPOOF ON ZELDA THEREFORE I THINK IT'S AWESOME"

And why are you still insisting on the alliteration? What part of 'that was one time in the comic' don't you understand? Look, I respect you share your opinion, but you keep arguing a point that really shouldn't be argued. It was made perfectly clear Malakite did not rate it based on the alliteration, he rated it on the overall use of vocabulary in the entire comic.

Just because he's kind of nice for once doesn't mean he 'lost his quality'. It's not like he's Simon from American Idol being forced to sugar coat things. Malakite is simply blunt and says it like it is in his view. Why tear something appart that he sees as good? This doesn't make him a different person or any less of who he is, he'll still tear a bad comic a new asshole, no doubt. But for once he found something he thought was decent. Again, not amazing or perfect, but decent. Something that's an enjoyable read but not a "OH MY GOD THIS IS SO AWESOME EVERYONE READ THIS HOLY SHIT I'VE NEVER SEEN SUCH AN AMAZING COMIC!!"
I'm still not sure why you are so upset, Terminal. All I can see is you didn't see what you wanted to see, a rude and asshole Malakite. But what's the point of him reviewing if that's all he'll ever be? Maybe he's trying to find a good comic for once, reading only bad comics can be stressful after a while.

Don't fret so much, he's still Malakite. He's still a witty asshole. Why do you think he gave a middle finger up to Mandu?

posted by BaldDumboRat on August 14th, 2009, 7:24 pm



  Explainations and apologies.

I intend for this to be the last bit of the "arguement".
I only continue because I want my exact point of view to be known as it actually is, and not misconstrued.

1)I personally have found alliteration to be a cheap easy way to insert large a larger vocabulary.

2)Although the comic did infact have some extra vocabulary that was not isn't common in the lowest ranks of comicdom, I see them often enough in comics of similiar types, that they are no big deal.

3)If he can get bonus points for a little thing like that, I would only think it would be fair that others would get bonus points for other little things.

4)I believe the little things to be called gimmicks. THis is a language issue due to the fact I consider a gimmick to be an added feature if the product is worth something without it.

5) I assume Malakite has read more comics than I have, so I assume he's seen alliteration and that vocab more often, and I'm shocked because of that assumption that he considers it above and beyond rather than what is expected.

6)Although not quite to my tastes I found Mandu's comic to be an average comic made by someone who knows what they are doing.

7) I also found the majority of this review to be acceptible. But just as Malakite can't give a perfect score to Mandu in spelling and grammar, I just can't let that apparent discrepancy go unquestioned.

8) I never intended to bring my comic into this, but I am not an eloquent enough arguer to effectively state what I was trying to say without bringing it up. If there have been another comic with great or greater art or charectors or what ever, that didn't get a bonus point, I would have used that comic. I am quite happy with my review, just a little
sore on the whole lack of bonus points for more effort in the art category than a good portion of the sprite comics out there. I make it sound like its a bigger deal to me than it actually is to me. A little sore means to me that, hey that's kinda unfair, so what, no big deal, but I should bring it up in passing anyways, just in case it actually is a problem. So I did.

7)I didn't think that "Just watch the panels when you post your comics and also keep the panels at the larger sizes, cause the comic is easier to read." refered to the text size. My bad. I thought it meant make the bubble surrounding the text bigger.

8) I never intend to raise this kind of ruckus. I do like argue maturely and logically though. Since it appears I've not do so I appologise. I had intended to do so, and did not. I'm sorry.

9)I can not agree with this
"Drawn versus sprite comics in terms of time and effort, a good drawn comic takes WAY much more time than a sprite one no matter how hard you try and prove otherwise" But for this, I'll simply agree to disagree.

posted by Terminal Devastation on August 14th, 2009, 8:11 pm



 

You aren't reading ANYTHING at ALL! Holy shit man! You're STILL arguing the same point over and over! READ! I'm tired of being nice! I've not said one insult to you but I have had it with being clearly misread!

1- Alliteration was used ONCE in the comic and does not make up the entire series. This one part was not the reason for a bonus point, nor the good score. The score was based on having hardly any mistakes grammatically or in spelling. Malakite docked a point from it for a tiny screw up he found. He stated he'd have given a full 10 if not for the mistake, and said some vocabulary words were chosen nicely.

2- Grammar and Spelling have really nothing to do with vocabulary, which is why vocab is a bonus point. Bonus for effort, right? Get it? 9 is the A, perfection of grammar, spelling, and going all out with nice vocabulary words gives it the bonus A+, which Mandu DID NOT recieve!!!

3- Read comment 2!

4- One comic. One page. Get the fuck over it. So he decided to make a V for Vendetta reference once. It was NOT to be cute or quirky or be a gimmick like you constantly insist, it was a REFERENCE! The entire comic is NOT LIKE THAT!

5- ALLITERATION ALLITERATION ALLITERATION! OH MY GOD STOP SAYING THAT WORD! YOU'RE MAKING MY HEAD BLEED AS YOU CONTINUE TO BEAT A DEAD AND ROTTING HORSE!!!! REFERENCE. NOT CUTE. NOT QUIRKY. NOT ADDED FOR SPARKLE SHINE!

6- 78 IS A FUCKING AVERAGE SCORE! AVERAGE COMIC! IT'S MADE CLEAR IT'S A-V-E-R-A-G-E! So YOU are pissing in cornflakes that aren't even needing to be pissed in!! Malakite gave average, I've said MULTIPLE TIMES that it's average! 78% is a B score!! IT'S NOT AN A COMIC!

7- *bangs head on desk repeatedly*

8- So you're bitching because you wanted little bonus points? Too bad, you didn't get anything bonus-worthy in Malakite's eyes. "Waaah waahh it's unfair, I want bonus points too, why does HE get bonus points and not me?!" GUESS WHAT GENIOUS! NO ONE ELSE GOT BONUS POINTS EITHER! SUCK IT UP!

7 (actually 9)- Ok at least you read THAT.

8 (actually 10)- One big thing you need to do to avoid conflict is to really read what people say and be clear on your points. The fact that you've pushed a fact that's not even accurate or makes sense is what's causing this.

9 (11)- .............. You realize people have to take classes for drawing to perfect it? Even then it's near impossible to perfect. They have to draw a new thing from scratch with each and every frame, make backgrounds, make expressions, study anatomy and perspective, and even study the art of frame placement.
A sprite comic involves taking a set of something that already has a base, you don't need to hand draw your backgrounds, you can edit already made sprites or make your own, but even if you made the effort to make your own sprites you still have a base set of characters to copy and paste into backgrounds that are also copy and pasted. Yes, it takes effort to make this look good, yes maybe making bubbles is difficult, but again, we hand draw every bubble. Sprites may take effort to place properly, and getting photoshop effects and writing a script might be difficult. But hand drawn we have to DRAW our OWN effects, we have to make a script too! So how is sprite comic making any less time and effort than the hard work of a hand drawn artist? Both are difficult, but hand drawn has to go through much more work than any sprite comic ever will. I'm sorry, but it's true.


*deep breath* Sorry. But I like logical debates and arguments. This argument has gotten absolutely nowhere.

posted by BaldDumboRat on August 14th, 2009, 8:32 pm



 

@TD
Ok, now let me tell you my stuff cause you don't like to read anything except your blind points:

1)It was used in one comic, you didn't read BDR's comment which is why right now you look like a goof. I'm not basing an entire category on that one used plot. So stop beating such a stupid point already!!!

2) Actually they are a big deal, comics don't typically use big vocabulary since they aren't on the same level of essay or actual novel story writing, some authors use it as a way to make their comic seem good and professional but I know well enough when it fails. So again, another useless comment you made.

3) HE DIDN'T GET ACTUAL BONUS POINTS!!! CAN'T YOU FUCKING READ!!!Holy fucking shit do I have to spell it out to you and brand it on your fucking brain for you to get it!! Sheesh...READ FOR FUCK SAKES

4) Your opinion of a gimmick isn't the actual definition of what a gimmick is, which is why this point is also stupid and flawed. I don't care about YOUR definition of a gimmick, I'm going by textbook rules of what it is. Mandu's comic did none of the sort, so it's not a gimmick, its just humor for some people.

5)Going back to point 2, I normally don't expect people to use advance vocab in comics and it making perfect sense to the situation and sentence at hand. Some people use it out of place or make the entire situation make no sense. This is another thing Mandu didn't do.

6) 78% is not anywhere near amazing, you seemed to not have read my percentage and wording system, you're not making yourself look really good at this point. The average comic should be ranking somewhere between 60-80%, but that's something you don't probably agree with but that's not my problem, its my ranking system and I stick by it.

7)So far you so called discrepancy is really a figment of your imagination. The only thing you should question in my reviews is why I don't proofread better before I post them.

8) I'm not biased towards sprite comics or drawn, I'm actually more lenient on spite comics than I am on drawn comics. Sprite comics will always have fundamental flaws like quality of sprite and backgrounds and objects, whereas drawn comics don't have that excuse. Again, I didn't reward him any bonus points for his big words, GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD ALREADY!! He got a 9 because other than that one comic, he pretty much nailed the spelling and grammar. If anything, I ripped him off cause I don't do .5 marking. XD

9)(not 7 princess) Well read harder next time

10) (not 8 XD) Apology accepted, now fuck off asshole XD j/k

11) (not 9 -_-;)Actually you're wrong. Drawing takes a LOOOOOOOOT more effort than a sprite comic. Sorry princess. A sprite comic is simple copying and pasting shit into a premade panel and using photoshop or whatever to make the effects, it took me 30-40 minutes to make a 6 panel comic, I know this shit already. Drawing you have to sketch the comic out, that can take up to an hour, then you have to ink it, another 30-40 minutes, then you have to scan it and use a proper program to color or tone it, that can take hours depending on if you're coloring or toning it. then there's all the things BDR listed that needs to be done. So ..yea....

In conclusion...holy shit BDR...listen hun I know you're trying to defend me but...sheesh XD Anyways, that's my opinion, now let me get back to playing Guild Wars god dammit, I'm trying to Map out all of Tyria for fuck sakes XD

posted by Malakite on August 14th, 2009, 8:36 pm



 

I think I'm gonna need a loooong break, I'm so tired of making such an effort of posting shit that no one reads.

posted by BaldDumboRat on August 14th, 2009, 8:40 pm



  Oh my!

I never expected this kind of reaction over my silly little comic. I guess alliteration has been a large topic of discussion for my review. I do have a thesaurus, but in real life, I really do have a decent vocabulary. I would be happy with Mal's review even if he gave it all ones. This is one mans opinion. I ultimately write jokes that make ME laugh. That should be ANY creator's main audience. I have loved the use of alliteration since highschool, some 10 years ago. I thought V for Vendetta was a fun movie, but I think I might make a better referrence to it than just using a bunch of words that start with the same letter. I am a big fan of the english language, rhyming and cleverly putting words together. I can understand that some or many won't like my work, as Roger Miller sang, 'It takes all kinds to make a world.' I can't stand 'Cathy' comics in the Sunday comics. Who cares? Lots of people do, and her brand of humor just doesn't appeal to me.


If you read my stuff and laugh, cool. If you read my stuff and sigh with a facepalm, cool. Either way, you've been affected by my comics.

My biggest concerns when getting reviewed were about formatting, visibility, and posting frequency. This is not to say that I wasn't looking for constructive critisism in all the other areas of my work. I cherish all opinions that come my way. (I'm still giggling that I'm thought to use alliteration as a gimmick.)

I review my comic everyday. I have my own doubts of my sense of humor, my drawing ability and what have you. Then I think about how I can write better jokes, refine my artistic abilities and not come across as insulting or pretentious to my audience at large.

I am not going to judge anyone else's styles or genre or methods, because you (the reader) are doing YOUR thing. You are bringing YOUR world view to the table in your work. Bravo. We have comics as a wonderful means of self expression and I encourage everyone who has read this, likes my work, hates my work to continue creating and making this world more interesting through sequential art!

Steven Carl Baughman (I'm on facebook!)

posted by mandu on August 14th, 2009, 9:07 pm



  @mandu

Opinions differ, Mandu. That is the natural thing in life. However TD is really just being plain stupid by making a big deal out of virtually nothing. He is trying to as I said, judge a comic by just the little of things, the little of things only play part and parcel to the comic as a whole. You got Mal's opinion and my thumbs up. I know not everyone will enjoy your comic, but in TD's case, he's just being an idiot.

posted by Zanoh on August 14th, 2009, 9:12 pm



 

*claps* Thank you Steven, you are most assuredly a very mature artist and I commend you for doing what you enjoy. And it's always good to wonder about mistakes and go back to look at comics, a lot of artists make the mistake of having a high egotistical view on their own works and fail to realize they can't improve that way. Keep at it!

PS: ... I hate "Cathy" too. Those are cricket inducing jokes for me. -___-

posted by BaldDumboRat on August 14th, 2009, 9:14 pm



 

A quickie here:

If no one has it already, I'll be reviewing Q4CE (Quest for the Chaos emeralds) next. But I can't be sure if anyone is reviewing it yet.

About the discussion here, it's quite quirky and full of lushish life. How it feels when more than 3 and 1 go together at different angles ^^

posted by Cresent Night on August 14th, 2009, 10:52 pm



 

Whenever I finish and revise it I suppose....

posted by Cresent Night on August 15th, 2009, 12:16 am



 

@Cresent Night
Yea....it was quite lively here today, but this is what happens when senseless people create arguments and drama over something that makes no sense to begin with and then persist to argue until they finally realize that they're wrong in the end.

posted by Malakite on August 15th, 2009, 4:05 am



 

@ Mal: I fear you may have (unintentionally of course) stirred up the hornets nest with that remark.

posted by Shadow The Unborn on August 15th, 2009, 4:25 am



  @Shadow

If he stirred the nest, I got the repellent...Anyone want it?

posted by Zanoh on August 15th, 2009, 4:28 am



 

I could use repellent, I hate hornets ; x;

posted by BaldDumboRat on August 15th, 2009, 4:30 am



 

@ Shadow
More like TD stirred up the hornets nest to begin with, and let just say, he got stung quite a bit from it. Lesson learned, don't antagonize the hive unless you are sure you can escape alive or take them out completely. He didn't achieve either of the above. But whatever, argument is done, I'm working on your review next and then I'm gone for a 3 week vacation to visit my gf BaldDumboRat.

posted by Malakite on August 15th, 2009, 4:39 am



 

@ Mal: Well, just remember the protection *gets brick tossed at face*...

ANYWAY, I think I should note that I have recently been testing bubble/boarder from Black boarder white bubble or White boarder, black bubbles, so its not a matter of flirting with schizophrenia.

And now that I know you're working on the review I must buy a bunker for pending nuclear fallout...

posted by Shadow The Unborn on August 15th, 2009, 4:47 am



 

@Shadow
Hahahahaha, I really have made quite an impact here, it makes me laugh. Next thing I know i'm gonna be known as the demonic lord of reviewers just cause of how much of an egotistical asshole i can be. XD

posted by Malakite on August 15th, 2009, 4:54 am



 

You know, it's weird seeing two blue haired avatars with rainbow background talking to eachother. XD

posted by BaldDumboRat on August 15th, 2009, 5:07 am



 

I guess it is kinda funny...Though the rainbow is symbolic for my character (Lisa) is a lesbian...lol

posted by Shadow The Unborn on August 15th, 2009, 6:02 am



 

>.< This really is going nowhere for a little issue. gave some critism and I defended it. Thats it. At least all I intended to do. I did take it farther than I should have and for that I'm sorry. But I felt the need to clarify what I was saying and attempted to do so. I still feel that need, since you are still misinterpreting what I am saying. But I'm going to just let it go. Its now inherently clear that neither side understands what the other is saying, and its now a big enough issue to continue further than what it actually was.

As for the whole Sprites vs handdrawn time thing: You won't get anywhere convincing me without HARD data. I've heard all your arguements before, and I'm not convinced. Mainly because it is highly situational, and even subjective. I'm not going to even argue my points on this matter, because I also know they won't convince anyone either. That's why I agree to disagree on this subject.

Are we cool now? I've gotten some sleep now, so I'll be a little less arguementive.

posted by Terminal Devastation on August 15th, 2009, 8:23 am



 

TD...I love you like a brother, but I REALLY think the second paragraph shouldn't had been said.

Didn't you get ENOUGH yesterday, man? -_-

posted by Shadow The Unborn on August 15th, 2009, 9:40 am



 

Hey guys, I forgot, what comics did I call again?

EDIT: Now I remember, I did take Q4CE and another Re-review of AKoS. You still want that StU?

posted by Afrohawkman on August 15th, 2009, 10:07 am



 

@Afro: Will you be reviewing Q4CE, or Another king of shy?

I've already finished the rough outline of my review for the Q4CE.... didn't know you were reviewing that v_v"

I think it's best if an reviewer's name is next to the comic on the list they'll be reviewing. Someone mentioned this, but I haven't seen it gone to play yet....

posted by Cresent Night on August 15th, 2009, 10:41 am



 

I'll re-review AKoS only if StU wants the review. You can take Q4CE.

posted by Afrohawkman on August 15th, 2009, 10:51 am



 

I want you AND Mal to do it...The more view points, the better.

posted by Shadow The Unborn on August 15th, 2009, 11:10 am



 

I don't know, it seems off that more than one reviewee is reviewing the same comic at the same time. There is a list of comics waiting to reviewed already here. Having two authors review the same comic at the same time takes too much out of this....

Though I'm not actually sure if both author's will be reviewing the same comic, I'm just expressing my doubt upon it if it does occur.

@Afro: Good to hear ^^

posted by Cresent Night on August 15th, 2009, 11:32 am



 

Alright. Hopefully I have some extra time today to do so.

Also, did someone ever call the re-review of my comic?

EDIT: @Cresent: I called StU's comic a long time ago, I just haven't done it.

EDIT2: Woah, same time post and same time edit. Creepy.

posted by Afrohawkman on August 15th, 2009, 11:32 am



 

On a lighter note, I'll be reviewing Saturday Night Mudkipz.

posted by Shadow The Unborn on August 15th, 2009, 12:45 pm



 

@TD
I accept you apology, but next, PM me your issue instead. Calling me out like you did was a bit disrespectful, especially since your arguments against me were moot. Now we're cool.
@STU
Only 1 reviewer per comic, so pick who you want to review it cause I rather know before I leave next week so I can squeeze one last review in.

posted by Malakite on August 15th, 2009, 1:00 pm



 

@ Mal: *gets out Pokeball* Mal, I CHOOSE YOU!!! :P

posted by Shadow The Unborn on August 15th, 2009, 2:03 pm



 

Mal: *comes out* ...*flips off the audience* its go time....

posted by Malakite on August 15th, 2009, 2:05 pm



 

...There was a Pokedex quip I had, buuuut, I decided against it...

posted by Shadow The Unborn on August 15th, 2009, 2:15 pm



 

Hahahah oh cmon post it, you got me curious now

posted by Malakite on August 15th, 2009, 2:17 pm



 

If you insist...

Malakite
The Bishi Pokemon
Flying-Type

A self asorbed pokemon who's ego is at levels which cannot be measured by common means.

With overly flaboient charm, it seems to feel that it a God in its own mind.

Though it is still largely unknown breed it is thought that it is homosexual in nature, and the only male Pokemon which can lay eggs.

posted by Shadow The Unborn on August 15th, 2009, 2:22 pm



 

Terminal, please, I beg of you, thoroughly read this. If you have to read it over twice to make sure you've actually picked up on it and understand it, and if you want to even think of responding to this post, I want your response to clearly show you read and understood the points made. I will not accept your argument unless you show you comprehend, and I will not believe your point until you show ME hard evidence.

I'm sorry, but your statement about hand drawn VS Sprite is a big slap to MY face. I've been drawing since I was 4, and it's taken years and years to perfect this art, and I STILL have a long way to go! Even people who can't draw can make sprite comics, and it really shouldn't take over 17 years of effort to perfect. Even with hard evidence I'm sure YOU wont even see any difference because you clearly are too blind to humble yourself and admit that maybe sprite comics are hard, but drawn comics can easily be much harder. Yes, it can be subjective, because there are people who put years of effort, and then there are people who just slap shit on a piece of paper/MSPaint, but I'm not looking at those people. I'm looking at people who have tried very hard to dish out quality work.

There's a REASON that there are COLLEGE courses for comic art called "Sequential art". Also there's a reason why sprite comics have small little online tutorials, and why hand drawn comics have books upon books of advice. Not to say sprite comics aren't comics, because they are mentioned in Scott McCloud's "Making Comics- Storytelling Secrets of Comics, Manga, and Graphic novels", one of the most well praised guides on drawing comics. He gave a nice technical name to sprite comics, "Deliberately pixelated contours", he considered sprites to be a form of comic and showed a frame from "8-bit Theater", which I'm sure you've heard of. But there's a reason there was only one small page for sprite comics, because all the chapters of comic making technique are thrown out the window by these sprite comics.
These chapters cover many things sprite comics just aren't capable of, such as:
*Distance, angle, and P.O.V (Sprite comics are very often shown from the side, very few ever take another angle)
*Establishing shots
*Working Method
*Clarity vs Intensity
*Intensity VS Persuasion (this is about drawing things clearly so people can see: ie: Can you draw Einstein and distinguish him from Mark Twain? You have to make effort to draw things clearly)
*Character design (making characters unique, clear, and emotional using images, giving them all distinct expressions)
*Symmetry and recognition
*Emotional communication
*Direct, Specialized signals
* Facial muscles
*Elevation and Status
*Distance and Relationship
*Imbalance and discontent
*Figure drawing
*Anatomy suggestions
*Revising the establishing shot (you can only take so many angles of a location in a sprite comic. A drawn comic is considered bad if you draw the same angle of one location over and over too much)
*Perspective
*Reference and research (Yes, we have to often hunt down stock photos or ask friends to pose for us, something you sprite authors don't need to do since you already have most of the poses you need. yeah, you have to hunt for sprites to use or make a new one, but you can use the same one time and time again, while we have to draw fresh new poses. Drawing the same pose over and over is considered a big NO in drawn comics, as it makes the reader bored)
*Traditional tools
*Traditional lettering
*Pens, brushes, and markers
*Publishing Alternatives
*Discovering your art style
*Understanding comic culture



This is a fraction of what this guy tapped on in his book. And this is just 1 book. He has 3!!

I hope you're still reading, because when you ask for hard data, I'm giving it to you, and if you don't take it in, you clearly don't know how to learn and accept anything but your own viewpoints.

Some kids out there think manga is easy as taking a shit, but little realize manga isn't just about sparkly large eyes and crazy hair slapped on frames. I'm actually STUDYING to be published, this is not a hobby for me, this is a lifestyle and a career.

Scott McCloud goes into detail for a small section of a chapter saying why manga was taken so well and what it does that most American comics really never did.

Scott McCloud on Manga:
"In those pages I found a lot of VISUAL STORYTELLING techniques rarely seen in American comics that I was eager to put in my own comics as soon as I got the chance. I've seen books about the history, business, and culture of manga and plenty of manga style how to draw books-- but in 24 years, I've rarely seen anyone focus on these basic storytelling techniques, so let's have a look."
Iconic characters: The simple, emotive faces and figures which led to the kind of reader identification I talked about in Understanding comics, pages 29-45

Genre Maturity: An understanding of the unique storytelling challenges of literally hundreds of genres, including sports, romance, S.F., fantasy, horror, business, sexual comedy, etc.

A strong sense of place- Environmental details that triggered sensory memories and, when contrasted with iconic characters, lead to the masking effect.

A broad variety of character designs: Featuring wildly different face and body types and the frequent uses of recurring archetypes.

Frequent uses of Wordless Panels combined with aspect to aspect transitions between panels; prompting readers to assemble scenes from fragmentary visual information

Small real world details: An appreciation for the beauty of the mundane, and its value for connecting with readers' everyday experiences--Even in fantastic or melodramatic stories.

Subjective motion: using streaked backgrounds to make readers feel like they were moving WITH a character, instead of just watching motion from the sidelines.

Various emotionally expressive effects: Such as expressionistic backgrounds, montages, and subjective caricatures-- all aimed at giving readers a window into what the characters were feeling.

"I noticed a common theme emerging, as if all the techniques were being deployed towards a single purpose. All of these techniques amplified the sense of reader participation in manga, a feeling of being part of the story, rather than simply observing the story from afar. And for all the talk of formats, marketing and "Cultural differences" in 1982, I became convinced that it was THIS quality of manga that had fueled its massive success at home-- and potentially, in North America."
-end quote

That was what really inspired me to try to tap into what really made manga so enthralling in the first place. The emotion, the connection, etc.

Did you know: A sprite comic takes one person to make. A good manga, or even a comic book, often takes a TEAM of people to perfect it. In Japan it's not uncommon for a manga artist to have a team of over 3 people working on the same comic. They need a professional toner, and editor, someone to draw things in that the artist may have trouble drawing, someone to touch up the line art, and the main artist themselves. I've read many manga where the authors have expressed the importance of their team, and they also talk about the hard work they have to put into their comics. They barely have time for a lifestyle outside comic making due to deadlines, and they often stay up in the night with a cup of noodles, dishing out 10 pages a day. One mistake can easily ruin an entire page, and this is drawn, this is not something you can hit the 'undo' button to fix.

Also, Terminal, I did try my hand at sprite comics, and my boyfriend had made them for over 5 years, and it really does pale in comparison to the effort needed to make a good hand drawn comic.

The common process of a sprite comic page: Find sprites- IE: http://www.freewebs.com/vanssea/Navy%20Sprites.PNG (A blue tails, havn't seen that a million times, but that's not the point XD)
Edit sprites if needed to fit you own characters, color changes, alterations, etc, so you can have a full base of positions, actions, and expressions to use.
Find backgrounds. IE: http://www.purpletoad.net/sprite/rr_background.bmp

Create your frames, paste the backgrounds you want to use in the frames, then find the character possitions and poses you want for the scene and paste them in on the background where they are needed. Create effects for the characters, or find them. IE- http://sdb.drshnaps.com/sheets/Media/Dragonball/Other/Effects.gif
Add dialogue, either improved or previously scripted. Create the word bubbles and make them clear for readers to follow.

And there you go, pretty much done.
I don't have many examples of my process, but here's what I have:

Plan out your panels. IE: http://www.mangatutorials.com/tut/basic/panelbasic3.gif
Finding a flow is very important, especially in manga. A manga becomes boring if the same set of frames are used over and over, and frames must be chosen wisely so that they wont confuse, but will keep the reader engaged and in touch with the environment of the story.
Individually sketch out each frame: http://www.smackjeeves.com/images/pb/5/5uA4S7zzzqM4C3rM5tsmiv.jpg Plan out every pose and emotion, even angle to keep the reader engaged and connected to the moment. If needed, take reference pictures for poses, ask friends to mimic the desired pose. (do not steal from photographs and art by other people, unless the photo is a stock photo, but always refrence if a stock is used)
Ink the comic. Use tools comfortable to you, be careful not to mess up on the lines, because this is the point where erasing is not an option. Choose clear depths of the line work to distinguish textures, bodies, and thinness/thickness/solidity of an object. Example: http://www.smackjeeves.com/images/pb/6/6ofmi3jAfUTwhatBIRSvqO.jpg

Scan so the art is clear and crisp and easy to work with.
Tone or shade- This can be done many ways, it's a hard choice to make on how you want to shade, you can greytone in photoshop, use manga tones in photoshop or manga studio, or hand shade with pencils. Shading must be studied or it wont look right, shadows must be put in the right locations and darkness and lightness need to give a sense of different color shades.
In photoshop the process is very long and can take HOURS to do!
I have to copy the image to a new layer, highlight all the white areas and delete them, setting the black line layer to 'Multiply'. Then I have to make a new layer between both layers to create tones, sometimes more than one layer is needed to separate the tones without mistakes. After the tones are layed down it's important to go in and fix any details. Basic tone page: http://www.smackjeeves.com/images/pb/N/N9ManiprdFp2x6EohhytB.png

Next, go in to make shade details on a new layer, and highlights on yet another layer if needed. This gives the characters a sense of depth and quality. Example: http://www.smackjeeves.com/images/pb/1/1y5NguijMpHcrpCskoO8Ax.png

Lastly I have to make touch ups and add any details to add to any effect, sparkles, background effects, gradients to make the appearance of textures more evident, and any last finishing touches needed. Finally, the page is complete.
This process is in NO WAY easy!
This page: http://www.smackjeeves.com/images/pb/6/6Qo63ehjGlpZpJZNh25ZLw.jpg took over 5 hours to complete! This page needed 8 layers to be done!

You wanted hard evidence, you got it. The studying and years of experience needed pales in comparison to what someone needs to make a sprite comic.


If you STILL insist your point then I will understand that you are a lost cause that will never learn or read anything properly because you're too blinded by your stubborness. So far all you've shown us is that you have very selective reading. You've driven a point that is totally unnecessary because it has been proven otherwise by 4, count it, 4 people. Clearly it's not our fault if you insist we are misreading you, you have been typing your point completely wrong if 4 people all see the same point being made. Please, if you can't properly project what you are trying to say, stop saying it. Because you are obviously doing something wrong.

GOOD DAY SIR!

posted by BaldDumboRat on August 15th, 2009, 2:24 pm



 

@STU
Hahahahaha, that's priceless. Malakite is a VERY self absorbed ego maniac, but that's what makes Malakite so amazing to people sometimes. It's because he has that "I'm always right and you're wrong asshole" attitude. Some people love it and how he plays it off, but then there are those who don't really like it. But hey, his character style works very well for me. If you met me in real life, I'm a very laid back person and I barely have much of an ego nor am I self centered. Most people don't know this but in order to write the reviews I do, I have to get my mindset into Malakite so I can pull the review off properly. It's all about his witty sarcastic asshole-ish attitude, its not an easy thing to do. Most people think it is, but they are sadly mistaken, there is a lot of timing and even complex thinking involved to get the right sarcastic joke or similes to flow properly, make any sense and entertain the reader and hopefully the person i'm reviewing at the same time.

Wow i'm turning this into Malakite's autobiography LOL. That's why my arguments and reviews sound as harsh as they are, I've basically made Malakite to be that kind of guy who's very blunt and won't open his mind to anything other than his own view, mainly because he doesn't give two shits about anyone but himself or even what people think. In his mind, the world is full of stupid people, and he'll always be around to drag their asses back to reality the harsh way, with his cruel witty asshole remarks.

I do thank TD though for one thing, he just gave me an idea for a new Malakite's Colored Commentary comic that I can make before I leave. Time to tear more than half of smackjeeves a new asshole *grins*

posted by Malakite on August 15th, 2009, 2:30 pm



  Hey, just out of curiosity

BaldDumboRat: I pretty much read...most of that. Like, the first half and the last half, didn't get through to the middle yet. Yet. But, I'm actually wondering, what exactly were you two arguing about? Like, which was better?

If so, Drawn > Sprite by a mile, and that massive wall of text surely proves that. I think you took my wall of text award.

posted by Afrohawkman on August 15th, 2009, 3:48 pm



 

@ Afrohawkman
Terminal Quote: I can not agree with this
"Drawn versus sprite comics in terms of time and effort, a good drawn comic takes WAY much more time than a sprite one no matter how hard you try and prove otherwise" But for this, I'll simply agree to disagree.

posted by Malakite on August 15th, 2009, 4:16 pm



 

@ Mal: I'm sure you're not really a dick IRL.

But that character of yours would be one I'd throw into a wood chipper if given half the chance.

...THERE'S AN IDEA!! Make him immortal and getting killed off for being a dick could be used for comedy...Jussssst a thought...

posted by Shadow The Unborn on August 15th, 2009, 4:24 pm



 

@Shadow
Hahahah you probably aren't the only one who would love that chance. Sadly no one ever will get it :P However, i do have another character lined up to join malakite in his reviews, only he is the DIRECT opposite to him and makes mal look more like an asshole.

posted by Malakite on August 15th, 2009, 4:26 pm



 

DAMN YOU MAL!!! I'LL KILL HIM YET!!!!! @_@

posted by Shadow The Unborn on August 15th, 2009, 4:29 pm



  this whole thing got blown out of proportions

Hi I'm Terminal devastions lil bro trying to shed some light on what TD is trying to say, or atleast what i think he is trying to say. He is mad atleast i think he is that a comic drawn
like that is basically being said to better made then alot of his Scratch sprites. Which i watch him take hours making with small little pixils. He Scratches entire backgrounds sometimes pixil by pixil. While most Sprite comics are copy and paste he does alot of scratch backgrounds and charecters. Yes after he has created it once he does just copy and paste it afterward. Whereas a drawn comic like the one being reviewed can take maybe a few hours to create. Also he is thinking that if some professional spriters got together and sprited a comic they could make comics that could equal drawn. Of course everything would be Scratch without using any kind of edit/base at all. Pixil by pixil using paint or jasc. I think he is saying that would take as long then a manga. Not a copy and paste sprite comic like everyone else does. Not timebreakers. Something else he is wanting to make. It would be a pixilated manga basically and he is saying that would take longer then drawn comics

So does that make sense? I think that should be enough. He's gonna get mad at me through.

posted by Hktraidon on August 15th, 2009, 4:29 pm



 

@Mal: I would love to see your other character. If it makes Malakite look more like an asshole, I'd be happy to see that ^^

posted by Cresent Night on August 15th, 2009, 4:30 pm



 

Haha, when I get upset and fired up about something important to me I will create practically an ESSAY to prove my point. I've taken debate classes in school, so I get very heated and insistent on proving my points.

Terminal was disagreeing that hand drawn comics are much harder and take longer and more effort to make than sprite comics.
Quote Terminal: "As for the whole Sprites vs handdrawn time thing: You won't get anywhere convincing me without HARD data. I've heard all your arguements before, and I'm not convinced. Mainly because it is highly situational, and even subjective. I'm not going to even argue my points on this matter, because I also know they won't convince anyone either. That's why I agree to disagree on this subject."

Asking for hard data was a nice large invite for me, and if he refuses to read, then he knows nothing about the world of comics and never will. If he can't agree with the most highly praised guide for comic authors, then he is beyond help completely. Scott McCloud is praised as a genious for his style in teaching, his entire book may be a tutorial but it's not boring, the entire thing is written as a comic and filled with examples as he explains many points based on his research and experience. And the best part about it all is he is humble enough to admit that even he hasn't perfected the art of comic making, he says that as he makes these guide books even he is learning alongside with everyone reading. Everything he says is VERY valid, even over on the strict but well known site "Concept Art" they suggest his book to anyone wanting to explore in the Sequential Arts.

posted by BaldDumboRat on August 15th, 2009, 4:30 pm



 

@TD's brother
Here's how your point fails miserably, which sells more in stores and to the general public, sprite comics or hand drawn manga?
I have yet to see a sprite comic on a store shelf anywhere in North America so I arrest my case. There is a reason why drawn comics end up on shelves and sprite comics stay on shit sites on the internet.

@ Cresent Night
Well BDR will work on the expressions eventually, but the character is named Kahz and he's is the grinning pansy in my avatar. He;ll pop up probably in a couple of months or so.

EDIT: @Shadow
You realize he is reviewing your comic right? Angering him and wishing death upon him is only gonna fuel more hate into your review XD j/k

posted by Malakite on August 15th, 2009, 4:33 pm



 

@ Hktraidon: Look, this is really his argument, if someone DID make a comic pixel by pixel with each frame hand made and each expression, pose, and character and it CLEARLY shows, then yes, it would be a lot of time and effort. The problem? Typically no one does this. If I ever find a hand pixeled comic that follows the techniques of comic making that makes comics good, then yes, I would agree that perhaps it does take more effort. But this would NOT categorize as a sprite comic, it would be what is called a "Pixel" comic, Pixel art and Sprite editing are NOT the same thing. I know some pixel artists who put hours of hard work into one image, and they are amazing! But to say a sprite comic takes more effort is a big no.


He may have hand pixeled some backgrounds, but they can be used again and again. Also, there's a lovely little tool called the 'undo' button. Hand drawn comics on paper CANNOT use an undo button, one mistake and that's that.
Tell your brother to read my post thoroughly, because I proved the point he asked for. And if he's too blind to see that effort and respect the years that went into making my hand drawn comics, then I will not regard him as anything but a close minded, selfish, stubborn, biggotted moron.

Also I find it curious that it looks like your only purpose for joining this site was to make one post here defending your brother. I've seen this technique used many times. The 'friend' 'parent' 'sibling' joins a site to make one post when the poster can't post for himself. I hope this is not the case and that you are legitimate, because if you're just pretending so you dont get more drama, you are very immature.

posted by BaldDumboRat on August 15th, 2009, 4:42 pm



 

Oh that would be such a fantastic scenery. A Pansy Kahz standing next to... well, Malakite himself looks like a pansy too. The heart on his chest and the young sulky face...

BUT expession-wise, quite different in outtakes... I think....

posted by Cresent Night on August 15th, 2009, 4:42 pm



 

@Cresent
The tattoo on Mal's chest is actually a red rose, not a heart :)

posted by Malakite on August 15th, 2009, 4:48 pm



 

Dam, I thought "rose" but my fingers typed "heart"....

One of my worst intentional spellings yet, next to typing "wine" by accident when I meant to type "fun" in one comment... probably was thinking about wine that time ^^"

posted by Cresent Night on August 15th, 2009, 4:51 pm



 

Also, I want to quote Malakite: "Spending hours and hours on a comic doesn't mean it will score good. If you put that much time into your comic and it didn't score well, it means you've been wasting your time making it incorrectly."

You can spend a YEAR making a comic page, but if you can't present it properly no one will care. You can't just make an effort on art and nothing else.

posted by BaldDumboRat on August 15th, 2009, 4:56 pm



 

@Cresent
Because I'm bored at the moment, let me submit an example of what to look forward too when Kahz arrives: http://oldmantime.smackjeeves.com/comics/675947/old-mcc/

posted by Malakite on August 15th, 2009, 5:10 pm



 

Ho... I'd pay to see that. But since it's free, I'm good here ^^

Unless you don't make it, then... well, that's about it.

posted by Cresent Night on August 15th, 2009, 5:12 pm



 

Huh. Well since I'm not reviewing either of those comics, I have nothing to do. YES.

posted by Afrohawkman on August 15th, 2009, 5:26 pm



 

My god, I go and check my e-mail only to find this stupid flame war hasn't ended yet. Jesus Christ, what do we even have those PM's for anyway?

posted by Slimey J (Still on Vacation) (Guest) on August 15th, 2009, 9:59 pm



 

If mine are any indication, discussing trolling, being threatened by a noob who doesn't want their comic mentioned on ED, and apologies and begging from said noob.

posted by Doomsday on August 15th, 2009, 10:03 pm



 

Yay, a fellow EDer!

posted by BaldDumboRat on August 15th, 2009, 10:14 pm



 

I actually was planning to join Smackjeeves for awhile, i just didn't have a good enough reason to. I saw td as i was reading your essay and realized he was too hot headed at the moment and needed to cool down so i kept him away from the computer. I just felt i needed to say some things as as second person who knows td in rl thats all. I will try to further my career on smackjeeves maybe with my own comics which may or may not be handdrawn or sprited. But right now i'm probably going to be lazy for awhile and not get anything done right now.

posted by Hktraidon on August 16th, 2009, 6:43 am



 

Again, TELL him to read my post, because he wanted me to list Hard Data, and I sure as hell am not going to be happy if I wrote all that for it not to be comprehended by someone who it was intended for. I don't honestly want to talk to you, it's his decision to grow up and learn to watch what he says when he himself gives nothing to remotely back up his points.

I asked for proof of this 'alliteration' he was spouting on about. Did he provide his evidence of this technique being used more than once as an overall gimmick? No.

I asked for his proof of what makes sprite comics more difficult and hard work than hand drawn. Did he provide it? No. So far 4 people have provided PLENTY of argumentative points from MANY different angles and approaches. Has he? NO! He's been stickign to the same point on and on and on, and claims we don't know what he's trying to say. But he was sure as hell blunt about it before, so why's he upset and saying we don't know what he's saying? Because we don't agree with him. Yeah, that's real mature.

Right now all I'm seeing is a stall of time and a way to escape admitting that maybe for once other people who have researched for years may be more knowledgeable in comic making than he is.
And if you really are 20 and he's your older brother, I find that even more sad, because he's an adult and he's barely shown anything for it. And I'm not even 20 yet.

posted by BaldDumboRat on August 16th, 2009, 12:16 pm



  You want proof? Here's "proof"

If a logical arguement where all the facts are considered is presented and it is clear that the point I want to make is known to the opponent, I can and will admit defeat.
And I must make myself clear. I do in fact have a communication problem. So yes its my problem and yes I'm doing it wrong. So I keep trying until I get it right. Hopely the time I spent thinking on this will allow me to communicate my point correctly. Therefore I ask you carefully read what I am saying.
And understand that I want to learn.

As far as that whole alliteration thing is concerned I admit defeat. I should have never even mentioned it nor was it even part of the point I wanted to make. For that I am sorry. An issue did arise but it was not the issue I thought it was. Taking two days off to work on making sure I understood BDR's arguement as well as some research into the matter of my own to help strength my own arguement, has forced me to realize what that issue really is. However, that is a matter which should be discussed in a PM with Malakite. So it will be and after I get the two questions that will be in that PM answer, regardless of the answer that will be the end of it. Period.

Now to address BDR's post directly. Almost everything you have said is absolutely correct, and I never disagreed with it. Really. Regardless of what you people thing I'm not delusional. The current level of sprite comics is nowhere NEAR the level of handdrawn. I am not going to argue with this. And yeah, the "sprite" comic I was using as a comparision would more than likely techinally be a pixel art comic according to artistic terms. It may be possible with a true sprite comic, but I don't know.

However since I come from a spriting background, sprite does NOT mean ripped or edited sprite, it means a piece of pixel art that is styled in such a way that it could have come from a video or computer game. I scratch megaman to look like its from a Donkey kong country game, it would still be labeled as a sprite by the spriting community, even if there was no editing involved. It would be known as a scratch sprite. Thus, according to the terms set by the spriting community, such a work would be considered a sprite comic.
I'm pretty sure the spriting community would be the ones defining what a sprite comic is.
Can we not argue semantics though?
As a side note though: I've never seen a category for Pixel art comic, so I'd assume they'd file under sprite comic here.

Honestly, going into this "Pixel vs. Pencil" I knew enough about hand drawn comics to know that
a)They took longer than they look
b)There are things going on in the background that I don't know about.

I had no idea there was so many of them. So, thank you for that list, BDR, you've just made this well worth my time. Even if I'm defeated, I am closer to my REAL goal.

Please understand that my arguement was never to suggest that well made hand draw comic took as much time as the current level set by the hand drawn. I was saying that at an EQUAL level a sprite comic COULD take longer. Not just any old sprite comic. A sprite comic the likes of which the world has yet to see. The exception to the norm. Thus the term High end.

It's true, sprite comics DO throw most of those on that list out. And that saddens me.
I see all the untapped potential the sprite comic medium/style has, and then look at the hand drawn comics; and ask myself, why the heck can't we do all those things. I haven't seen many sprite comics at all that use most of that list. Possibly one. If you'd like I can link you to it.

Again, I had no idea there was so many of them. Shows what I knew.

I really liked the quote on Scott McCloud on Manga, because that is sorta what I want to eventually do for sprite comics. I want to make a sprite comic that can infact challenge manga. (Side note #2: No, not my current comic, thats just a testing ground for perfecting my comic making techs.)

I was suggesting that a "sprite" comic, that uses as many of those comic making techniques as can actually be applied to a sprite comic, could possibly take longer to do than a hand drawn comic of an equal level.

At that level, much of the process and background effort (Education, research, practice) is the same for both hand drawn and sprite.
I can prove this, even if I'm not even close that level.


I would like to sprite professionally, so when a professional level spriter gives advice on a forum I go to, I listen. Technically read.
Anyways, one of most common pieces of advice I've seen is:

Learn to draw.

Thats right, knowing how to draw helps one to sprite with better quality. Most of the drawing techniques apply to sprited comics, and others can be adapted to them. So a serious sprite comicer could infact learn and study hand drawn comics to improve their sprited comic. In fact I'm looking at that list and thinking "hey I would like to try that, I've tried that, that looks like fun"
Things like tone, shade and even finding a reference apply even to edits. I constantly find myself looking at my hands just to figure out how they look so I can get the hand to be positioned right and if I need a odd pose or a cloth reference to see how it folds, I go find a reference (Often a sprite of a style I can't just copy and paste from) to see how its shaded. Spriting as is a form of pixel art after all, so it as an art, takes time to get better at.
You can't just say spriting only takes so long to perfect, just as I'd be an idiot to say your art should only take so long to perfect. If you could, a lot more people would have a lot better sprites.

So really, sprited and handdrawn don't HAVE to be so different.

Take a good hard look at sprites and tell me they don't look similiar to many drawing styles. I don't think I need to prove this point any further.
You really do need to know drawing techniques well to make a good sprite.

I really do recognize the amount of effort hand drawers have to go though to make a comic. But I also know the kind of effort that a spriter CAN put into comic making.

I do know many of the advantages sprite comics have over hand drawn comics.
And the lower levels, the advantages sprite comics have make them faster and require less effort than hand drawn. There is no contest there.

But as you throw in more and of those comicing techniques several of those advantages a sprite comic has are thrown out the window and the process becomes longer. This is especaily true when viewpoints start to change. Even if the intial viewpoint was made from a rip, as most sprite comics are made from, to change the view point there is usually no other choice than to resprite everthing, and the edits can be so heavy that you might as well just pixel the whole thing from the ground up. Further more, you would no longer be able to reuse backgrounds as often, if ever. The real inherent advantages a sprite comic of that caliber would be that
1)It does not have the inking step nor the scanning step.
2)The shading step and the sketching step are often combined.

I know some of the advantages and disadvantages hand drawn comics as well, if there are ones I missed, please correct me. I insist actually.

The biggest advantage hand drawn comics have over sprited ones, is the ability to protray things like curves, sharp objects, and thin object from any angle. If no mistake was made, one will be able to hand draw a curve faster than someone can pixel the same curve. Further is it a lot more work to make a spike look like a spike, depending on how thin it is. Theres another advantage, mainly that hand drawn comics can get away with not having a background more often and than a sprite comic, But lets rig things more in the hand draw comic favor and say that at this level sprite comics can get away with it too.

But I suppose you already know these facts.

Judging from what I learned and my experience, I'd suppose the process of a high end sprite comic would go something like this:

1)Plan the panels: Yep same as a handdrawn. As its a comic making tool, if you want to have quality you have to do this. I've done this a few times. Once on paper, mostly in my head.

2)Select charectors and background, I'd suspect since a comic of this quality would demand it, getting away with the same old background is a no-no, and same with sprites. Since I already average about 2 new poses a comic at my level, I can pretty safely assume this super sprite comic will need about a new pose per charector per frame. Since the POV changes, it would be pretty safe to assume each sprite will need a complete overhaul. That takes 15 per sprite at the minimun, and if you're really picky each sprite would end up with about an hour or so worth of tweaks to get it just right.
I average 30 minutes per a complete overhaul of a sprite if I'm lucky. If we're really
The backgrounds would be worse by far. Especailly with the point of view things, because you don't have a reference of how it would look from a different angle so you have to figure it out. And they are a pain. I can spend hours on a single background. Even what seems to be a simple one.
But lets put it at say... an hour a background.

3)Put sprites on the background.
Simple enough. I use layers in case I don't like out the are place at first and more with complicated movements like afterimages. Takes a minute tops.

4)Apply effects. We're spriting here so lets avoid cheating and adding shopped effects. Seems easy... But this step would also include making sure the sprite fits into the background right, like editing the feet so its actually on the background instead of sloppily intesecting it or floating above it when they shouldn't be. 5-15 minutes to do this per sprite. Oh wait, Have to make sure the lighting is correct, might have to reshade entire sprites to match the current lightinng on the background. Adds about 15-30 minutes per sprite.

5)Flatten the images and place into panels. About a minutes amount of work.

6)Add bubbles and text. Pretty easy.

Now heres the kicker that makes or breaks my arguement:

I do not know if the spriting and effects steps of this high end sprite combined takes more time than the inking, sketching and shopping steps of the hand drawn.

I don't actually know what the average times for those hand drawn steps are. I now have a slight idea, so thank you, BDR. But you can see why I think a sprite comic can in fact rival a handdrawn in time if a spriter decided to actually take the time to rival a great handdrawn in quality.

I mean by my calculations it would take about 7 hrs 3 mins at the minimun for a four panel comic with only two sprites and a background per panel; excluding the time placing text and planning the panels. And of course if your making a comic like this, you either had formal education in comic making or learned it the hard way, so the years of experience behind it are there too.

And my numbers are low if anything. I asked around for verification.

So yeah, I feel I have a valid claim here. My math also shows WHY such a sprite comic doesn't exist yet, the amount of time for a small comic is absurd, and most of the people who make sprite comics are making them because they can be easy to make, and if you have the kind of patience and drive to spend that kind of time on a comic, chances are you are hand drawing it.


Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go see if I can sprite Mark twain and Albert Einstein, without them looking like either each other or Dr. Wily.

posted by Terminal Devastation on August 17th, 2009, 7:45 pm



 

Here's some advice if you want to reach this goal to prove a sprited/pixelated comic can be just as pleasing as a drawn one.

First I definitely suggest you get Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics, even if there are techniques that can't be used in sprite comics, there are MANY that can be used, and he has a lot of good points to teach along with good exorcises to improve your skills in comic making. I can tell you have a long way to go, it wont be an easy path, but if you study some of the more advanced pixel art you can pick up some good techniques.

Also, random, but might I give some advice on your word bubbling style? It actually looks distracting and kind of plain and messy, if you want to go with black bubbles I would suggest you use an embossing effect to give them more depth, and perhaps tinker with the opacity to make it only slightly see through so it looks more like part of the comic rather than a slapped on bubble. Also try bold font and maybe look up some free downloadable comic fonts for an easier more professional looking read.
Right now, at least in my opinion and from some other people I've asked, the plain black and thin font looks a little out of place and messy to the eye, defiantly work on the reading appeal, it would up your presentation quite a bit. Hope I helped.

posted by BaldDumboRat on August 17th, 2009, 9:49 pm



 

I was wondering if specifically would review my comic?? =3 I like how thoughtful your reviews are in particular, and you are pretty consistant when it comes to bringing them out too, so could I request you review my comic? (unless it doesnt work like that!)
lunderworld.smackjeeves.com
thankyou! Interesting to see a happy smiling review today!

posted by Theorah on September 10th, 2009, 2:49 pm



 

I just realized that zanoh is reviewing my comic , so ignore my last comment! ^^;

posted by Theorah on September 11th, 2009, 12:58 pm



 

tl;dr version: Alliteration does not make you as smart as you think it does. But I bet you are bemused by my beautiful barrage of backtalk.

posted by venion on July 4th, 2010, 7:48 pm



  Alliteration!

Ladies and gentlemen,

I don't or have I ever thought that using alliteration in my comics makes me seem smarter than I am. I just plain like to use alliteration sometimes and I think it's fun to try different things in my comics. If you have read my stuff, most of the jokes are just bad puns or other less than clever plays on words. For people who like them, they bring smiles and chuckles and the occasional groan. I do not consider my self pretentious or some other nasty breed of human that plays at pretending to beef up one's self image or intelligence. I say if someone doesn't like my stuff, don't read it! :D

Stay groovy,

MANDU

posted by mandu on July 6th, 2010, 7:03 pm



 

You know, this review turned out to be like some big contraversy over why mandu got a good mark and it all stems from my comment over his use of alliteration. Look people, I don't care if this makes me sound like an asshole but seriously fuck off with the stupid comments about how cheap alliteration is. Let me tell you something, there was more to this comic that I liked to give it its score and you people are so fucking blind and can't read worth a shit ro know it. Yea I liked the alliteration since I'm used to so many comics with either poor spelling and grammar or just shit english but spelling and grammar is only 1 of 5 parts of the god damn review and it wasn't the soul reason for giving this comic a good mark. The next person to revive this old review with comments regarding alliteration is getting blocked from posting in this comic. Enough is enough, get a fucking brain and learn how to read the review PROPERLY!

posted by Malakite on July 6th, 2010, 8:15 pm



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